# Get to Know the ICANN Community: ALAC and SSAC: transcript

[0:02] MTS - AV: Thank you very much.

[0:05] MTS - AV: Welcome to the last session for today.

[0:08] MTS - AV: And this is the session where we are going to cover.

[0:13] MTS - AV: 2 communities to learn more about 2 2 communities which and we will start from

[0:20] MTS - AV: Security and Stability Advisory Committee.

[0:24] MTS - AV: And we will finish this session learning about at large, and with the great pleasure, I would like to introduce our panelists. Yeah, but before introducing our panelists, I would like to give the floor to Fernanda, my colleague, to read the script.

[0:43] MTS - AV: Fernanda, over to you.

[0:46] MTS - AV: Yep.

[0:48] MTS - AV: Hello, and welcome to the Get to Know the ICANN Community SSAC and ALAC session. My name is Fernanda Iunes, and I'm participation manager for the session.

[0:58] MTS - AV: Please note that the session is being recorded and is governed by the ICANN Community Participant Code of Conduct.

[1:04] MTS - AV: ICANN expected standards of behavior, and the ICANN community anti-harassment policy.

[1:10] MTS - AV: Please observe the following guidelines to participate in this session. I'll also post them in the chat for your reference.

[1:17] MTS - AV: During the session, questions will only be read aloud if submitted within the Q&A pod.

[1:22] MTS - AV: Interpretation for the session will include English, French, and Indonesian.

[1:27] MTS - AV: If you'd like to speak during the session, please raise your hand in Zoom. When called upon, virtual participants will be given permission to unmute in Zoom.

[1:37] MTS - AV: On-site participants will use a physical microphone to speak.

[1:41] MTS - AV: Only questions posted in the Q&A pod will be read aloud during the session as time permits, and when directed by the chair of the session.

[1:48] MTS - AV: Please state your name for the record, the language you will speak if speaking a language other than English, and speak clearly at a moderate pace. All right, Siranush.

[1:57] MTS - AV: Thank you, Fernanda. And without further ado, I would like to introduce ESSAC, which is Security Stability Advisory Committee, ESSAC Chair and Vice Chair Ram and Tara, who are great supporters of NextGen and fellowship programs within ICANN.

[2:16] MTS - AV: And I… Ram, the floor is yours.

[2:19] MTS - AV: Siranush, thank you so much, and good evening, everyone, and welcome to this session. I know it's the last of the sessions that you have today, but we will make sure that it's not boring.

[2:35] MTS - AV: So I'm the chair of the ICANN Security and Stability Advisory Committee. To my right here is Tara Whalen. She is the vice chair of the same committee. And scattered around the room, if you could please either stand up or raise your hands, are other members of the SSAC. So there's Georgia there.

[2:57] MTS - AV: Peter, Greg,

[2:59] MTS - AV: Jeff Berry, there's there's a there's a bunch of folks. Oh, there's Raphael. So there's a bunch of folks who are here. So after this session is over, and if you have

[3:10] MTS - AV: you know, questions, go talk to any one of them. They'll be happy to share their experiences of what it means to be in the SSAC and what does it actually do.

[3:23] MTS - AV: In the meanwhile, on the next slide, we'll share a little bit about who we are and what we do. Next slide, Sirinush.

[3:38] MTS - AV: Thank you. So, if you look at ICANN itself, one of its core mission statements is to ensure the stable and secure operation of the Internet's unique identifier system. So that's a core piece of what ICANN is about. Well, the SSAC's role is inside of that

[3:57] MTS - AV: core mission to advise the community.

[4:01] MTS - AV: and board members, of course, on matters that relate to the security and integrity of the internet's naming and address allocation system. So, the charter of the SSAC is directly tied to the mission of ICANN. Next slide, please.

[4:20] MTS - AV: So we have several responsibilities. There's a lot of words on the screen, so I'm not gonna read them to you. You can read them yourself. But the short form of it is that we engage with the community, like in sessions like these.

[4:35] MTS - AV: But the biggest thing that we do is we analyze risks and threats to the Internet's naming and address allocation services, and we then

[4:48] MTS - AV: provide advice if we have advice to provide. In some cases, you know, we publish reports where we simply provide information on what is happening.

[4:58] MTS - AV: without necessarily providing specific actionable advice, right? Because in some cases, it's an early stage. A few years ago, we published an advisory, for instance, on emerging identifiers, you know, the evolution of identifiers.

[5:15] MTS - AV: names that were being created in other namespaces, including the blockchain namespace. And we did not have a specific, you know, recommendation for the ICANN community other than keep watching this space. Innovation is always a good thing, but you have to keep

[5:34] MTS - AV: Aware of, you know, what the risks are.

[5:36] MTS - AV: Next slide, please.

[5:39] MTS - AV: The membership of the SSAC, you know, as I mentioned, there are some members of the SSAC who are here around, around you in the room. Many of us will, look like you or speak like you.

[5:56] MTS - AV: And one of the things that we work on doing is to continue to enhance the diversity and the skill sets that are inside of the SSAC.

[6:10] MTS - AV: As you can see right now, from the Latin America Caribbean region, we do not have any SSAC members.

[6:17] MTS - AV: And there is a particular process for applying to become an SSAC member, and, you know, Tara can speak a little bit. She chairs the membership committee that does the selection, so she can share a little bit about what those criteria are.

[6:33] MTS - AV: And how people can qualify for that.

[6:37] MTS - AV: Next slide, please.

[6:40] MTS - AV: So this here on the slide, this is the leadership team of the SSAC

[6:45] MTS - AV: And this team's tenure actually ends at the end of, this calendar year. I have been re-elected to be the… to continue to be the chair of the SSAC for a further, three years. Tara, thank you.

[7:06] MTS - AV: Thank you.

[7:07] MTS - AV: Tara has, decided to abandon me and continue doing, other important things. No, just joking, but Tara is stepping down as vice chair. We'll have elections to elect new vice chairs for the SSAC. Jim Galvin is the liaison from the SSAC to the ICANN board. Jeff Bedser and Barry Lieba are

[7:32] MTS - AV: Also on the leadership team.

[7:34] MTS - AV: And…

[7:35] MTS - AV: The reality is, and you may recognize this in other places, but I can tell you this for a fact inside of SSAC, SSAC would not function, would not be SSAC without the amazing ICANN support staff who underpin the work that we do.

[7:51] MTS - AV: Carlos and Danielle and Kathy and Dan and Michael, all of these folks, we consider them part of the team and together we help make

[8:02] MTS - AV: decisions, and we work with the membership to to do the work that we are chartered to do next slide, please.

[8:15] MTS - AV: There you go. So the SSAC focuses on five.

[8:19] MTS - AV: keystone topics. Five topics that we believe are important, that we believe are essential to the continued safe, secure, and stable operation

[8:34] MTS - AV: of the Internet's identifier systems. DNS abuse, new GTLDs, DNSSEC, alternative namespaces, as well as the security, stability, resilience aspects of Internet governance. So those are five areas that we have a continued and dedicated focus in terms of what we do.

[8:56] MTS - AV: Next slide, please.

[8:59] MTS - AV: And again, I won't read all this, all the words that are here on the screen. But what you can see here as a snapshot

[9:07] MTS - AV: is we have over the last, you know, 20 or so years of our existence, 25 almost coming up years of our existence.

[9:17] MTS - AV: We've published, you know, 130 plus reports, but often clustered around those five topic areas that I was talking about. Those are the primary things that we focus on. Next slide, please.

[9:34] MTS - AV: And these are recent things that we have done. We've written about DNS abuse mitigation. We've written about that for a long time.

[9:43] MTS - AV: We've written about the proposed root KSK algorithm rollover. We provided some responses to the technical study group's work on alternative namespace integration into the DNS. And currently we have

[10:00] MTS - AV: Five areas of focus. We have a work party that is looking at the AI impact of AI on DNS abuse.

[10:08] MTS - AV: We have a work party on DNS transparency. And if you have questions about what those mean, again, come talk to any one of us. Some of the work party chairs, the DNS transparency work party chairs are here in the room.

[10:22] MTS - AV: DNSSEC operational considerations.

[10:26] MTS - AV: the responsible integration into the DNS ecosystem, which has to do with identifiers in the blockchain and other, you know, namespaces like that. And we are deeply engaged in the current PDP on associated domain checks in the GNSO.

[10:44] MTS - AV: Next slide, please.

[11:06] MTS - AV: Okay, so that gives you an idea of what we do. Let me turn it over to Tara for a moment to share a little bit about what does it mean to become an SSAC member, and how could one qualify to become an SSAC member?

[11:23] MTS - AV: Hello, I'm always happy to talk to people who are interested in becoming members of the SSAC.

[11:29] MTS - AV: We do have a process every year. At this point, we've gone to a sort of a window based system where people can apply generally up to June, and then we spend time looking at who has applied and figuring out, you know, what our needs are. And, you know, assessing the applications and going through an interview process.

[11:49] MTS - AV: But the if you're mostly asking how you get there, how you be ready, perhaps, to become a member of of Sac. If you're

[11:56] MTS - AV: interested in the sort of work we do. The very first thing I generally recommend to people, if you're at the meetings, is we have a lot of open meetings now where we're presenting the things we're working on. Sometimes the work parties are available to talk about their work.

[12:10] MTS - AV: There are many presentations, lightning talks, and if you go in and say, this seems very exciting, this is the kind of work that I want to be a part of, then that's maybe the beginning of something where you say, this is a group I might want to join.

[12:24] MTS - AV: But then you have to think about, then, what would it mean to be ready to join, and are you prepared to do that? So we have people with lots of different types of expertise in SAC. So there's a baseline of technical expertise, because we are, fundamentally, we do a lot of technical assessments of different

[12:41] MTS - AV: problems, different solutions, different approaches.

[12:46] MTS - AV: But there's a lot of differences in people's level of knowledge about different areas. So we do look at sort of many different ways that you could have come to this. We have people who do research. So they're used to forming research questions and doing analysis on data and looking at, you know, large amounts of data that we see in many of the systems, the DNS systems. We have other people who have a lot of operational experience that might be

[13:10] MTS - AV: working somewhere where they've had to do hands-on work. And so they very much know, you know, the ins and outs that make

[13:17] MTS - AV: the difference really about actually understanding the problem and the reality, the theory versus the practice. And we have people that do one or the other, or do both. And we have people with

[13:28] MTS - AV: registry and registrar experience. We have people who have experience in internet governance, so we have a lot of different things that come together to, feed into the expertise we use to approach all of these problems, which really, I think, strengthen our work.

[13:41] MTS - AV: So, because we do also make a lot of, you know, advisories or documents, also have a look at those. So, go through them and sort of see

[13:50] MTS - AV: you know, you kind of understand the problem space. You don't necessarily have to get every corner of every one of them, but on… if you're kind of pretty comfortable reading through them, kind of understanding the documents, that's great.

[14:03] MTS - AV: And then think about, if I had been there working on this document, what would I have contributed to this document? Sort of in what way might I have helped form this document? Maybe add something that wasn't in the document that you could have.

[14:16] MTS - AV: you know, contributed to make it stronger. So put yourself in that mindset.

[14:20] MTS - AV: I know that we get a lot of people in SSAC who are very experienced. But we do like to look at people who are earlier career as well. So if you'd spent a lot of time with exactly the sort of experience that sort of fits that niche, then you might fit exactly, you know, into the gap that we have. So you know, we're always happy to talk to people. And if you have questions sort of about the sort of things we're looking for, or you know clarity about the process. We're always happy to to talk to people, because again.

[14:45] MTS - AV: we're all sort of drawn from this community who come into Sac. So we're very happy to help people along that journey and to have you join and contribute to Sac.

[14:55] MTS - AV: Thank you, Tara.

[14:56] MTS - AV: Let me turn it back to you, Sirinish. Thank you, thank you. And just to, highlight what Tara has said, through the cooperation with the, membership group and Tara's amazing work during the last couple of years, we have

[15:12] MTS - AV: several fellows and next-genners joining SSAC group, so…

[15:17] MTS - AV: There is always the space to use your expertise, and you, as Tara mentioned, you are not supposed to know everything, but if you have specific expertise in the area which is within SSAC scope.

[15:33] MTS - AV: this is the place for you to definitely join and explore more. And I will open the floor for questions now, for a couple of questions. We have time.

[15:45] MTS - AV: I see Sadhichitta. Yes, please. You are the first.

[15:50] MTS - AV: Sadiqa.

[15:51] MTS - AV: Sadhichi.

[15:53] MTS - AV: So… Please go ahead, my dear. Thank you, thank you for the presentation. I am Sadiqcha Silva from Nepal.

[16:02] MTS - AV: I am with fellowship program. So my question is, how is SSAC thinking about the emerging issues like AI encrypted DNS or the privacy implication of domain registration data?

[16:16] MTS - AV: Simple one.

[16:18] MTS - AV: Thank you. Well, everybody has AI on their minds, and we have been looking at it for a little while.

[16:24] MTS - AV: At the… sorry, go ahead.

[16:29] MTS - AV: Oh, at the high level, our look at AI, especially when it comes to DNS abuse, what we have observed is that

[16:38] MTS - AV: the scale, velocity, and the sophistication of the attacks have improved significantly, right? So, how great is that fish coming at you?

[16:51] MTS - AV: How fast are they coming? How often are these abuse threats happening? That's happening quite a lot, but we are yet to see.

[17:01] MTS - AV: a brand new threat that has been created by AI. It has been primarily in our observation so far, primarily about scale and speed and the sophistication. Now.

[17:15] MTS - AV: Those cause…

[17:17] MTS - AV: problems, and those need to be responded, but, you know, that's kind of the… that's one part of the silver lining. The other part is that

[17:25] MTS - AV: We're also seeing defenders use AI effectively to counter AI driven attacks. So we're seeing, you know, some balancing starting to happen.

[17:39] MTS - AV: Thank you, Madhira. Go ahead and then Cliff.

[17:42] MTS - AV: Yes, hello everyone, my name is Madia Mohammed, I am a fellow. I think my question is sort of a follow-up to your answer about the sophistication of attacks. So in case of an attack on a specific, let's say, cyclic

[17:56] MTS - AV: domain, how deeper do we have to go, sort of, to identify if there may be other related names, that we should take into consideration? And I think that ties back to the new GTLD round. Like, for example, if… let's say Google, for example, because I'm sorry.

[18:12] MTS - AV: I've seen they have applied for me. So, if they get confirmed, and they get those DTLDs, and let's say we identify a phishing that is coming from one of them, do we have to verify all of the new ones that they got, or… So, sort of, where do we stop, or how far do we go?

[18:29] MTS - AV: Thank you for that question. You know, in general, when somebody is trying to fish you.

[18:37] MTS - AV: They're gonna send you an email or an SMS or something like that, or they're gonna try to find a way to lure you onto a website so that you can expose your credentials, expose other information about you.

[18:52] MTS - AV: So the domain name, then, is really the gateway to enter into that, right? Now, most of those happen to be names at the… what we call the second level, right? So, it wouldn't necessarily be at the… just a TLD itself. So.

[19:12] MTS - AV: For in your example, if Google had TLDA and there was a fish that you detected on TLDA,

[19:19] MTS - AV: It doesn't automatically mean that there will be an equivalent fish on Tldb, even though the Tldb may also be run and operated by Google. So you have to look at those on a case by case basis. Now there is work happening in the Gnso. This this policy development

[19:39] MTS - AV: process that is happening right now on DNS abuse, there is something called associated domain checks, and that is a specific area of current abuse that is happening that is costing people

[19:55] MTS - AV: Tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars of damage.

[19:59] MTS - AV: And that is what the GNSO PDP, the work there is intended to go and stem that kind of abuse. And the SSAC is deeply involved in that work.

[20:13] MTS - AV: Thank you. Cliff?

[20:16] MTS - AV: Thank you. My name is Cliff from Uganda, and I have two questions. One is about the recent

[20:24] MTS - AV: wrote Care Skill Rollover. And then the other one is about, DNSSEC. So, my question around.

[20:32] MTS - AV: The CAISC rollover is, someone told me that whenever you

[20:37] MTS - AV: Solve one problem, you create another.

[20:40] MTS - AV: So, what happens to those, who have not yet

[20:47] MTS - AV: updated their records, because, that poses a security risk. Is there any work, that has been.

[20:55] MTS - AV: Planned to make sure that they're quickly adopted.

[21:01] MTS - AV: Then, secondly, just last week we did a

[21:05] MTS - AV: DNS Secretary under the Coalition of Dicto Africa.

[21:09] MTS - AV: In Uganda, and We

[21:13] MTS - AV: Found out… we started by doing a research, which was done by the, consultant, and found that, the zone was signed since

[21:21] MTS - AV: 2011. But at the user level, it's really extremely low.

[21:27] MTS - AV: Almost at 1.3%.

[21:30] MTS - AV: And, just here in your presentation, I came across, a document, it's SSC126.

[21:38] MTS - AV: around DNS SICK delegation Sina.

[21:41] MTS - AV: Is that something? I haven't really gone through it. But could you give me just a high level summary of it, and how or whether you think it is something that can help in a Dnsc adoption.

[21:54] MTS - AV: Thank you for two very thoughtful questions. I think we have somebody here in the room who helped write that document. Do you want to come and speak to that, Peter?

[22:14] MTS - AV: All right, about to hijack this laptop.

[22:17] MTS - AV: I'm Peter Thomason, an ESSAC member, and 126 is an ESSAC report.

[22:22] MTS - AV: on what's called DS automation.

[22:25] MTS - AV: So when you have a domain that uses DNSSEC, turning that on essentially has two steps. The first step is that the DNS provider

[22:33] MTS - AV: Of the domain has to generate keys and sign all the records.

[22:37] MTS - AV: And the second step is to include those validation keys in the chain of trust that comes from the DNS root and goes through the TLDs onto that child domain, so that DNS resolvers actually can retrieve and validate the key that they need in order to validate these

[22:56] MTS - AV: DNS responses from that secure domain.

[22:59] MTS - AV: And…

[23:00] MTS - AV: That second step, pushing these keys into the parent zone in the form of so-called DS records is often a manual process. And there is automation technology for it available, but not very commonly deployed.

[23:11] MTS - AV: And, so that report suggests that that,

[23:15] MTS - AV: can be done, and registries who want to use this automation should be able to do it. And currently, there is no.

[23:24] MTS - AV: approved feature for registries at ICANN, so they cannot do it in the GTLD space. The CCTLDs sometimes already have deployed, but for GTLDs, it's not yet there.

[23:33] MTS - AV: And so the report recommends that I can facilitate a process where the GTLDs are also allowed to do this.

[23:40] MTS - AV: I would say, roughly, that process is two-thirds done or something. So there is something that's called an RSEP process, where the registries can request a new feature, and that is being, underway, and I guess it'll take a few more months, and then probably it'll be allowable for GTLD registries.

[23:58] MTS - AV: Thank you, Peter. Back to you, Sirunesh. And the first question, I can also answer that. No, I don't think we're going to have time. Let's go to other people.

[24:05] MTS - AV: Thank you, but please, Cliff, meet with Peter after the session, and if you have any questions to talk. Amrita, please, let's go with you, and then Daniel, you'll be the next one.

[24:19] MTS - AV: So, hello everyone, it's me, Amrita Adhikari from Nepal, and I'm next-gen participant, and I was just curious about how does ASIC determine whether it's

[24:31] MTS - AV: security advice has been actually been adopted and made the internet safer, rather than simply being published. Thank you.

[24:42] MTS - AV: What a great question!

[24:44] MTS - AV: I'm happy to answer it, but I also encourage other SSAC members if they would like to add as well. This is something we talk about all the time. You know, do we actually have an impact? How do we know that, you know, there is some relevance to the work that we're doing?

[25:02] MTS - AV: we don't… we were looking at empirical methods to measure that, you know, what might be a baseline and how do you measure it, but we were not able to find that. So, at best, Amrita, what we've been able to do has been qualitative.

[25:20] MTS - AV: You know, we've been polling and asking community members whether the reports that we are writing, whether they are meaningful, whether they actually help

[25:30] MTS - AV: advise and inform their communities to improve practices. I can say that several of our reports, the results of it have shaped

[25:42] MTS - AV: how many programs inside of ICANN have worked, even in this current new GTLD round that is underway, for example.

[25:50] MTS - AV: the name collision framework that is under is there? A lot of that is based on recommendations that the Sac and Sac took 6 years to study this topic and and write on this topic. So

[26:06] MTS - AV: Those are safeguards, but in many, many ways what really happens is it's hard to prove a negative. It's hard to prove that something bad didn't happen.

[26:18] MTS - AV: Right? So, what we, as a result, try to do is to strive to provide clear

[26:25] MTS - AV: actionable advice aimed at specific communities. And we're working with the at-large, whom you'll hear from in a short while. We work with the at-large, we're working with the ISP constituency and the contracted parties, so working with each one of them.

[26:44] MTS - AV: on ways to take the work that we have done and bring them, you know, to their audiences, because they have a reach to an audience that we don't have, right? So, with the ALAC, we have a program that's called Safer Cyber.

[27:03] MTS - AV: And we've been working on them with that, with the ISPCP all of this year. We've been running a series of webinars with them to help.

[27:15] MTS - AV: Inform their communities about important topics.

[27:20] MTS - AV: Thank you, Daniel. Please go ahead.

[27:23] MTS - AV: Okay.

[27:26] MTS - AV: Hello, I'm Daniel from Brazil.

[27:29] MTS - AV: I saw that your last report about the DOS, denial of service attacks, was in 2014.

[27:38] MTS - AV: The SAC is 0, 65.

[27:42] MTS - AV: DDoS attacks are increasing in numbers and in volumes. Currently, we have attacks in the multi-terabits scale.

[27:52] MTS - AV: So I would like to know if you, of ASAC, has… have any plans to revisit this report, create a new one, and how could me, for example, contribute with this? Because I work with the DOS attacks in Brazil, we have a lot of the DOS attacks there.

[28:11] MTS - AV: And I think this is a threat to the internet, to the DNS infrastructure.

[28:17] MTS - AV: And I would like to know if you have any plans, or any opportunities to work with that.

[28:23] MTS - AV: Thank you, great question. We look at our reports, and especially on important topics like DDoS, we look at them on a regular basis to assess whether they, whether we have something new to say.

[28:35] MTS - AV: You know, while it is unfortunate that the DDoS attacks continue to happen.

[28:43] MTS - AV: From the time we wrote it to now, in at least the last time we looked at it, what we found was the scale of it has increased dramatically. The size, all of those things have increased.

[28:55] MTS - AV: But we didn't believe at that time in the SSAC that we had materially new advice to provide. So, in general, the SSAC's approach is, if

[29:06] MTS - AV: It has already been said either by us or by others. We don't try to say it again, even though it, you know, time has passed and it's still an important issue.

[29:16] MTS - AV: So, but happy to get any experiences that you have or any data that you have that might inform us, especially if you feel like there are pieces of data and information.

[29:30] MTS - AV: that our current reports or our current advice does not cover, that would be helpful. Thank you. Thank you. And the last question, Roshate, please.

[29:41] MTS - AV: Hello, so my name is Roshate. I have a very broader question. So, for the SSEC, I would want to know that how do you maintain, your independence of, technical advice while ensuring that your recommendations are practical for the broader ICANN community?

[30:00] MTS - AV: That's a great governance question. So, you know, many of the communities inside of ICANN have a conflict of interest policy and things like that. The SSAC is a little bit different, right? Because

[30:13] MTS - AV: the people often with the most expertise are also the people who are involved in industry or involved in commerce or things like that, right? So the SSAC's policy is what we call disclosure of interest, right? So we require every SSAC member

[30:32] MTS - AV: to, on a frequent basis, disclose what their interests are, what their affiliations are, right?

[30:41] MTS - AV: Having disclosed that, then we invite them into every topic that we work on.

[30:47] MTS - AV: to provide their advice, right? So that's… that's one piece of it. So we don't tell our members, just because you have a conflict, you should leave the room. We tell them, everybody knows that you work for somebody, or you have a particular point of view.

[31:05] MTS - AV: Having taken that into account, you know, come and contribute. That's one part. The other part on independence is that the biggest freedom for the SSAC is that we have no power.

[31:20] MTS - AV: We are an advisory committee.

[31:22] MTS - AV: We provide advice.

[31:25] MTS - AV: And the value of what we provide is totally based on the quality of our advice, right? We don't get to vote in the empowered community model. We don't, you know, so, so as a result.

[31:40] MTS - AV: The…

[31:41] MTS - AV: Because the value of our work is really the coin for us to be relevant in this area, if we become very partisan, if we become very focused on a non-independent point of view.

[31:59] MTS - AV: I can guarantee you somebody in the community will point out and say, that is not fair, that is not, you know, appropriate, right? But I think, really, the biggest element of preserving our independence is that SSAC members are not selected

[32:17] MTS - AV: based on whether they are, you know, from a particular constituency. There is no quota, or there is no intent like that. SSAC members are selected because they are subject matter experts, and when they are in the SSAC,

[32:37] MTS - AV: they do not represent their employer, they do not represent their government or something like that. They stand in their own right, right? Now, doubtless, if you look at the work that we do, you'll find that, you know, we are chartered inside of ICANN

[32:57] MTS - AV: and the board

[33:00] MTS - AV: effectively, the board is the organization that endorses each member to become, you know, a member of the SSAC, so you could say that there is a tie to ICANN in that way, but in the history of the SSAC,

[33:18] MTS - AV: for example, we have not made a recommendation for a member to be appointed, that the board has turned around and said, no, we will not allow that to happen, as an example, right? So the board as well takes that same principle of independence in a very serious way.

[33:36] MTS - AV: Thank you, Ram. I know there is always not enough time for all the questions for ESSAC, but having this opportunity, I invite all ESSAC members to our Fellowship Networking… Fellowship and NextGen Networking event right after this session. So please come and join us, and we will…

[33:55] MTS - AV: have more questions for you. And with that, thank you very much, and I would like to invite ELAC members, Chair.

[34:05] MTS - AV: incoming and outgoing chair of At-Large here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you very much.

[34:17] MTS - AV: Jonathan Zack and Claire.

[34:22] MTS - AV: As I said, Jonathan is outgoing chair, but he's incoming vice chair, and Claire is incoming chair for at-large.

[34:34] MTS - AV: This is the community which I personally came from, so it's very close to my heart. And, the floor is yours. Jonathan, Claire, who would like to start?

[34:47] MTS - AV: Thanks, I'll start quickly. Thanks, everyone, for being here. We really enjoy meeting the members of the Fellowship and NextGen communities, because

[34:56] MTS - AV: There's a lot of synergy between their interests and the interests of the at-large community.

[35:00] MTS - AV: Our primary objective is to represent the interests of typical end users.

[35:07] MTS - AV: In a… in an environment that's…

[35:09] MTS - AV: Full of very clear constituencies, whether it has to do with

[35:14] MTS - AV: commercial interests or, human rights or other, aspects, we are really here to represent the end users. That's why we're in the…

[35:27] MTS - AV: program the Safer.

[35:29] MTS - AV: a safer online program with SSAC that Ram mentioned, because we're trying to do some training on recognizing phishing, for example. And so it's… we're very focused on end users and the challenges they have in using the DNS and representing those interests here.

[35:48] MTS - AV: Inside of ICANN. So what I'd like to do is introduce Claire Craig, who, as mentioned, is the incoming chair, but is also someone that came all the way from the fellowship program all the way to being the chair of the AAALAC, and so has a very important story to tell in that regard.

[36:06] MTS - AV: So, Claire, take it away.

[36:08] MTS - AV: Thank you, Jonathan. My name is Claire Craig, as Jonathan and Suna said.

[36:15] MTS - AV: My… I'm just gonna tell my story.

[36:18] MTS - AV: And I will start by saying two things.

[36:23] MTS - AV: One…

[36:24] MTS - AV: First, before I say that, many of you would have heard my story before, so for me, it sounds like I'm just repeating myself, but I know that there are a few of you who have not, so please just, you know, allow me the liberty to just talk about this a little bit.

[36:38] MTS - AV: So I will start by saying, one, just say yes.

[36:44] MTS - AV: And two, volunteer.

[36:47] MTS - AV: Okay? Those are the two most important things.

[36:50] MTS - AV: So… I, as they said, I started as a fellow at ICANN

[36:56] MTS - AV: 58. That would have been in 2017.

[37:00] MTS - AV: It seems like a long time now, but for me, it was really very quick.

[37:05] MTS - AV: I I've also had a second fellowship at ICANN 59.

[37:11] MTS - AV: And then, you know, I did not attend a couple ICANN meetings, and then in… I had my third fellowship at ICANN62.

[37:21] MTS - AV: Following that, those were the days when the community did not select a mentor. So, I was able to be a mentor for ICANN64. And again, it's, you know, just…

[37:38] MTS - AV: Reaching out there and asking how I can help, what can I do, how can I be involved?

[37:43] MTS - AV: Then, COVID hit.

[37:45] MTS - AV: And we were all online.

[37:48] MTS - AV: And someone at Sunish always used to say.

[37:52] MTS - AV: get involved, join something. So, I… there was a toss-up between, do I get into the at-large, do I get into NCSG? So I decided to follow the route of NCSG.

[38:05] MTS - AV: And there was a plenary session on ICANN's multi-stakeholder model within the internet governance. And I volunteered to speak.

[38:17] MTS - AV: And, so, again, you get noticed when you do things like that.

[38:24] MTS - AV: I didn't know what I was talking about to some extent, but again, that's why I said, just say yes and volunteer.

[38:32] MTS - AV: The other thing is that when you do that.

[38:36] MTS - AV: people talk to you, and you can also approach persons. So I suggest that you identify people who you want to learn from.

[38:48] MTS - AV: and approach them, you would find that the community is very supportive in that regard, and they

[38:56] MTS - AV: Like people to come to them, and they like to help.

[39:00] MTS - AV: So, do that.

[39:03] MTS - AV: That opened the door for me in… so that was ICANN71.

[39:08] MTS - AV: And by ICANN 72, at the AGM like this, I was, I was,

[39:17] MTS - AV: appointed as the secretary for my Ralo, which is Lac Ralo.

[39:23] MTS - AV: Again, someone approached me and said, we need someone from

[39:27] MTS - AV: the Caribbean to be part of our Relo, and we would like you to to take up the role.

[39:35] MTS - AV: I said yes.

[39:36] MTS - AV: Audrey D. I said, but I will need help. And the thing is, you really have to be honest with people.

[39:42] MTS - AV: And, that led me to just being involved there, and by ICANN 78,

[39:51] MTS - AV: another AGM, I was nominated by the NOMCOM to be on the ALAC.

[39:57] MTS - AV: And when I came into the ALAC, I also came in as one of the co-vice chairs of the ALAC.

[40:03] MTS - AV: This is my second term on the ALAC.

[40:06] MTS - AV: So After my first term through the NOMCOM, I was elected by Mayrelu to represent Mayrelu on the ELAC.

[40:16] MTS - AV: This is no, Right. So this is now ICANN 87, and here I am.

[40:25] MTS - AV: elected by the ALAC to be the incoming chair at the end of this session.

[40:31] MTS - AV: Oh.

[40:32] MTS - AV: We did that.

[40:35] MTS - AV: So, so that's… so I go back to say, just say yes.

[40:40] MTS - AV: and volunteer.

[40:42] MTS - AV: And that's our short presentation, and, you know, this is an opportunity for you to ask us questions.

[40:48] MTS - AV: Rather than us just talking to you.

[40:50] MTS - AV: Thanks for listening.

[40:51] MTS - AV: Yes, this is a unique community, and a lot of fellows and next-genners are part of this community, because this is also regional-based.

[41:00] MTS - AV: ALSs, which can be engaged, so it's very important, part of the ICANN community, and I will just give the floor to, the lady there.

[41:12] MTS - AV: our next generator to ask Sanjina. Please, go ahead. Hello, everyone. For the record, my name is Sanjina Chhetri. I'm from Nepal.

[41:20] MTS - AV: I'm a student, and here I'm as a next-gen participant.

[41:25] MTS - AV: So my question, is to Claire and Jonathan both. What are the ICANN public comment proceedings that, ALAC is currently prioritizing, since we are in the AZM?

[41:39] MTS - AV: And, and how do we, me, me, myself as a newcomer, and also old user of the internet.

[41:48] MTS - AV: How do we know about, or how do we get updated about the, prioritization that, ELAC is, currently doing? So that we, so that I could know where to start from, where to go, and where to volunteer, as Claire said.

[42:05] MTS - AV: But.

[42:07] MTS - AV: Thanks, thanks for your question. We have two principal working groups that meet every week.

[42:14] MTS - AV: One is called the Consolidated Policy Working Group.

[42:17] MTS - AV: And the other one is called the, What?

[42:23] MTS - AV: Operations. Operations, Finance and Budgets Working Group. The O. I'm always missing. I want to say overhead, but.

[42:30] MTS - AV: operations, and so… In one case, it's gTLD policy.

[42:36] MTS - AV: Which is sort of similar to what goes on in the GNSO, and that's what we work on.

[42:40] MTS - AV: And then the other one, the OFB, is working on, you know, internal issues, the multi-stakeholder model. It's more like our relationship to ICANN, if you think of it that way, and how we exist within the ICANN community. And that's the OFB working group. So depending on the issue.

[42:56] MTS - AV: that's most important to you? Is it organizational dynamics? Is it the multi-stakeholder model and how to improve upon it? Then that would be the OFP working group. If it's specific

[43:06] MTS - AV: gTLD policy, for example, then the CPWG would be the place to come, and there's no… cost to entry, you don't have to be a member of anything to be on those calls. You can just start

[43:18] MTS - AV: participating.

[43:19] MTS - AV: And your voice will be heard alongside everyone else's. And so, I wouldn't start by talking, I'd start by listening, but you'll very soon see what interests you, and then give you the opportunity to speak up, to work on a public comment if we're making one, and that's the way into

[43:39] MTS - AV: The work that we do, those two working groups are really the primary place.

[43:44] MTS - AV: Sedant, please go ahead.

[43:47] MTS - AV: Yes, please, go. Based on… sorry, this is Claire Craig for the record. So, based on some of the specific public comments.

[43:54] MTS - AV: Coming up in December, and this is the OFB Working Group.

[43:59] MTS - AV: We are going to be responding to the operations, the budget, and the strategic planning, and those kinds of things.

[44:07] MTS - AV: So that normally happens. This year, the public comment comes out in December, the 8th of December, and we have 60 days to respond to that for ICANN and, the,

[44:20] MTS - AV: Ayana operating plans and budget. We are also following the Pdp.

[44:28] MTS - AV: 4…

[44:31] MTS - AV: EM,

[44:34] MTS - AV: DNS abuse, PDP one, and the public comment should be coming out on the second public comment because there was one recently, and that's part of the

[44:45] MTS - AV: CPWG public comment process, and also for the CP… for the OFB, there's a review of reviews.

[44:54] MTS - AV: Which we would have contributed to, but they are still working on that. So there are quite a few. I wouldn't go into all, but these are just some of the ones that you can look out for happening soon.

[45:06] MTS - AV: So that… go ahead.

[45:08] MTS - AV: So, hello everyone, my name is Siddhant, and I'm a computer engineering student at Nepal. So, my question is, so, in Nepal, we have about 124 spoken languages, and

[45:24] MTS - AV: as Alec, we say, at last advisory committee, we all are the Internet end users. So

[45:30] MTS - AV: how is ALAC ensuring non-English speaking end-user committees can actively participate in real-time policy discussions, because most of the people may not be speaking English as well? So, how can ALAC, ensure that every end-users are being represented?

[45:51] MTS - AV: Well, it's tough when you use the word ensure because, this is a very much an incremental, issue. I mean, right now we do more interpretation than any other group within the ICANN community.

[46:04] MTS - AV: More of our meetings have interpretation, but there's a limit to what can be done.

[46:09] MTS - AV: That said, ICANN has already begun through AI and other tools to expand that to make it possible for some machine-based translation and participation as well.

[46:21] MTS - AV: But there are limits to your participation in the absence of French, Spanish and English, the primary languages that we currently use for interpretation. But there are tools that are coming and we're doing our best.

[46:34] MTS - AV: But it's… but it's not easy, right? We can't…

[46:38] MTS - AV: afford to do interpretation of all the languages that are out there. And so, part of what we hope will help with this is the bottom up nature of the at large community. In other words, if you're.

[46:52] MTS - AV: part of an ALS that's part of a RALO, then maybe there's a way to participate in that RALO to percolate up a perspective that then makes its way up to

[47:02] MTS - AV: of the CPWG and the OP working groups, but it's, it's… we're not there yet, as far as everyone being able to participate in whatever language they choose. But it is the problem that ICANN's working on.

[47:18] MTS - AV: continuously.

[47:20] MTS - AV: Thank you, and there is a request, when you are speaking, please get closer to the mic so everybody can hear you clearly. Voila, please go ahead.

[47:31] MTS - AV: Hello, everyone.

[47:32] MTS - AV: My name is Wala, and I am an exchange participant.

[47:36] MTS - AV: So my question is, if I want to start an at-large structure at a country that doesn't have

[47:45] MTS - AV: A structure there. What would you recommend?

[47:48] MTS - AV: And what resources would be needed, if any? Thank you.

[47:57] MTS - AV: That's a bigger question than probably we would answer here at this meeting, but we can give you some guidance on what's involved in starting an ALS and what's necessary, but it's not a lot.

[48:08] MTS - AV: There are some very small ALSs throughout the ICANN ecosystem and part of the At-Large ecosystem. So it's very doable. And to do it, to start an ALS, present an approval process.

[48:23] MTS - AV: for just to make sure that people aren't double dipping, kind of, and trying to have multiple votes and things like that, but beyond that, it's not so… not so high a barrier. So reach out to us afterward, and let's walk you through the process. So, if I can request also those people… yeah, Amrita is there.

[48:43] MTS - AV: like, from at large, like, wave those people whose region I will name, so you know the faces. Europe?

[48:53] MTS - AV: Wave, please, if you… you are from Europe, ask the questions there. Asia Pacific?

[49:00] MTS - AV: It's there, yes, please. These are the people, Ari's over there, so those who are from Asia Pacific, please reach out to these people. Lacralo, Latin America and Caribbean group is here.

[49:18] MTS - AV: Yes, and Claire, including North America, Jonathan.

[49:24] MTS - AV: Eduardo are here, and, Africa?

[49:30] MTS - AV: Yes, and Emmanuel is from North America as well. Afralo. Who is Afralo? Yes, here.

[49:37] MTS - AV: Bukola, these are the people who can be your key contact, so please remember their faces, and we also invite ALAC at large crew

[49:52] MTS - AV: to share with us the networking hour, so you will be having the opportunity to talk to them.

[49:58] MTS - AV: Amrita, you wanted to add something. Thank you. And we'll be happy to speak to you. Anyone can form the ALSs. And on Tuesday, we have a couple of sessions with the APAC, NextGen, youth, et cetera. Please do come.

[50:14] MTS - AV: We'll speak to each other. Get to know if you need any help. We'll help you with that. So thank you and welcome to Apac. By the way.

[50:22] MTS - AV: And by the way, during the week, At Large will be having a lot of sessions, so if you are interested to learn more, please come and join, especially on Constituency Day. This is the day where they are working on the issues important to At Large. Claire, please?

[50:43] MTS - AV: I just want to remind you all that if you don't know

[50:47] MTS - AV: you can attend all of the Atlas… at-large meetings. You don't have to be a member, so you could attend your RELO meeting, so you… you now know who are the RELO reps in the room.

[51:01] MTS - AV: So you could get information about when our meetings are. They're usually monthly meetings and anybody is free to attend without being a member. Fact.

[51:10] MTS - AV: And there is interpretation at all our meetings.

[51:14] MTS - AV: Whatever questions end up, please go ahead.

[51:18] MTS - AV: Hello, I'm Zainab, I'm from Pakistan, and I'm a fellow.

[51:24] MTS - AV: I have two questions. One's related to your story. Thank you for sharing it. You said that volunteer and say yes.

[51:32] MTS - AV: So, after saying yes and volunteering, how do we make sure that we are remembered, and how do we make sure that we stand out in such settings? Okay? And the next question I have is related to ALAC's overall operations.

[51:46] MTS - AV: So, since ALAC is linked to internet end users, right? And internet end users can come from different backgrounds. Some would be… would have technical priorities, and some would have non-technical priorities. As such settings, when there are

[52:02] MTS - AV: increased chances of conflict, how does ALAC reach consensus then, and make sure that

[52:10] MTS - AV: Everyone is aligned on the same page, just, without, you know, sacrificing their major concerns.

[52:17] MTS - AV: Thank you.

[52:19] MTS - AV: Thanks for those questions. Jonathan will answer the second one. So, for the first one.

[52:28] MTS - AV: Once you reach out to persons, Okay, first to begin.

[52:33] MTS - AV: Among the at-large, and at-large is very different from ALAC. So at-large is the wider community, ALAC is just the 15 members, right?

[52:42] MTS - AV: Once you start to get involved in At Large, we find that there is always, and I will use the word always, a need for volunteers.

[52:52] MTS - AV: Because there are very few volunteers, and we try to avoid volunteer burnout. So once you show that you have some interest, persons are going to work with you.

[53:03] MTS - AV: And there are person… in the, the, fellowship and NextGen, you have mentors, and they will guide you, and they will work with you. But as I said, you can also reach out to anybody.

[53:17] MTS - AV: So one of my go-to — two of my go-to people, and I will say it here, were Cheryl and Jonathan.

[53:24] MTS - AV: So I just reached out to them, and I said, you all talk a lot in these meetings, so that means you know a lot. How can you help me?

[53:32] MTS - AV: Seriously! And they were really very helpful in that regard. So… and they were…

[53:39] MTS - AV: advise you where, based on your skills, where you may be able to fit in. Thank you.

[53:45] MTS - AV: And if you are lucky enough to have a mentor like I had, Cheryl Landon-Orr, in my life when I joined ICANN, then you will stay here for another 20 years.

[53:59] MTS - AV: Stop, stop threatening.

[54:02] MTS - AV: So, no, it's a very good question, and

[54:06] MTS - AV: This issue of consensus building is a very important one to us.

[54:10] MTS - AV: In particular, because…

[54:12] MTS - AV: It's certainly been my belief, as I've participated in the at-large community and in the ALAC, that unity on the part of the at-large community inside ICANN is critical

[54:25] MTS - AV: to our influence. In other words, if there's three different versions of what the end user interests are, we're abdicating our responsibility. We're giving it to other people to decide which of those three, whether it's the board or the GNSO or elsewhere.

[54:39] MTS - AV: So building consensus and coming up with a unified position and then adopting it, even if it's not exactly what you hoped for, it will ultimately give the the group of more influence generally. And so that's what we strive for. We try to listen to everyone's voice.

[54:54] MTS - AV: We try to incorporate everything we do. We try to discourage, you know.

[55:00] MTS - AV: random submissions, et cetera, and things like that, but instead try to get people part of the consensus process. And then once you're here.

[55:09] MTS - AV: you know, wave the flag. That's, that's, that's how we try to run it, because that's ultimately what, what.

[55:16] MTS - AV: is… will have the most impact on the debates that are taking place within ICANN itself.

[55:23] MTS - AV: Avari.

[55:24] MTS - AV: You have your hand raised, please. Yes, thank you. Avri speaking. And I'm speaking from the context of one of the co-chairs of the CP, the Consolidated Policy.

[55:34] MTS - AV: Working group. And I just wanted to, so people aren't scared. We talked about writing comments. Before we ever get to writing comments, we have people that read the documents and are reviewers.

[55:47] MTS - AV: And often those reviews are, you know, they're available in multiple languages and such. So the first level of volunteering, even within that group.

[55:58] MTS - AV: is just being somebody that's willing to read it and say, yes, I see a end user issue here and bringing it to the CPWG.

[56:10] MTS - AV: Always welcome anybody at the CPWG. You ask, how will you be remembered? Because as soon as I've seen you volunteering for something, I will come find you again.

[56:24] MTS - AV: And that's not just me.

[56:26] MTS - AV: And so, you know, and we have one of our meetings tomorrow.

[56:30] MTS - AV: So.

[56:31] MTS - AV: I just wanted to make sure that you didn't think you had to write. You don't have to write. Read probably helps, but you don't have to write.

[56:39] MTS - AV: Thank you, Ari, very important comment. We don't have time for more questions, but I would like to give the floor to Claire to summarize, and, next steps for our fellows and next-genners who wants to join at large.

[56:58] MTS - AV: Okay, this is Claire Craig again for the record. Next steps.

[57:03] MTS - AV: As Avri said, there is the CPWG meeting tomorrow, and I think that is at 10?

[57:11] MTS - AV: 10.30, and then there is the OFB meeting in the afternoon, and that's… it's a two one-hour session, so there's a part one and a part two, there's a break in between, and there you would hear a lot about the work that we are doing, and you are able to

[57:30] MTS - AV: just begin to contribute, begin to meet the persons who are behind some of these public comments. One of the things that we will be talking about at that meeting tomorrow would be some of the accomplishments of the OFB Working Group, of which I am one of the, currently one of the co-chairs, and

[57:49] MTS - AV: And then, those of you who are fellows, the next step is to, if you have… if you haven't had your three fellowships, continue to apply and become a fellow again. And if you have completed your three fellowships, then you can

[58:06] MTS - AV: Join the community, join your RELO and or well, yes, let me just say join your RELO and begin to get involved. As Avri said, you don't have to write. You could read. Just begin to contribute.

[58:22] MTS - AV: And you don't need to have all 3 fellowships in order to do that. So

[58:27] MTS - AV: So we do have our networking event starting in 2 min in the room in the foyer.

[58:37] MTS - AV: Let me tell you which foyer it was. It's… it's next door, yes, next door here, so please join us there for a couple of drinks and, get to know our fellows and next-genners. And I also would like to thank At-Large Community for being open, for being transparent, for being welcoming.

[59:00] MTS - AV: for, our newcomers here. Thank you very much, Jonathan and Claire.

[59:06] MTS - AV: Wishing you… Good luck in your new role. Thank you very much.

[59:16] MTS - AV: With that, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.

Source: https://icann87.sched.com/event/2WjfH/get-to-know-the-icann-community-alac-and-ssac
Revision: 8226048024544f3bf70689c0db53164812440a5a8522b0b57263628c5d83159d