# ccNSO: DNS Abuse Standing Committee Work Session: transcript [1:43] MTS - Video: the ccNSO desk, and what are our objectives, and what do we, what are we trying to achieve here? [1:52] MTS - Video: We've also got for you today some highlights from the 2026 survey of CCTLDs, and Alejandra and myself will take you through those. [2:04] MTS - Video: We'll have a bit of a discussion on the emerging themes from the survey, and [2:12] MTS - Video: hopefully get some insights and information around what we might want to identify for future ICANN sessions to, talk about. [2:24] MTS - Video: Also want to invite you to join the December webinar, which we will insert [2:31] MTS - Video: The second in there shortly, and more details will [2:37] MTS - Video: be circulated. It currently says the 3rd of December, but it's actually, the 2nd. [2:44] MTS - Video: Thank you also to the working group and to the subcommittee for all the work on developing the questions for the survey, and for reviewing the questions and providing feedback. [2:59] MTS - Video: So, next slide. [3:02] MTS - Video: a little bit about the ccNSO desk. [3:09] MTS - Video: Thank you. [3:11] MTS - Video: So DASC's activities primarily include sharing information via dedicated sessions within and outside the ICANN public meetings. [3:24] MTS - Video: We provide resources for CCTLDs to access on DNS abuse. [3:32] MTS - Video: What sorts of metrics are used to measure abuse? [3:37] MTS - Video: And support CCTLD managers in disrupting DNS abuse or abuse, whatever that means for your CCTLD. [3:48] MTS - Video: We currently have 24 working group members. [3:52] MTS - Video: And… Participation is voluntary, and importantly. [3:58] MTS - Video: DASC does not develop policies or rules. Each ccTLD will develop their own. [4:09] MTS - Video: In accordance with, their cultural and geographic locations, and what's important to them. [4:18] MTS - Video: Next slide, please. [4:28] MTS - Video: So a little bit about the 2026 survey. [4:34] MTS - Video: We've refined the questions from 2024. [4:38] MTS - Video: Reduced them in number from 43 to 32. [4:43] MTS - Video: provided a bit of clarity and filled some gaps based on feedback that we'd had previously. This is the third survey overall. The one prior to 24 was 2022. [4:56] MTS - Video: Some of the new topics that we've included in the 26 one is around associated domain checks. [5:05] MTS - Video: Domain generation algorithms. [5:08] MTS - Video: Those two topics are also currently being explored by the GNSO policy development and going through a policy development process. [5:20] MTS - Video: A little bit more deeper dive into registrar requirements, and some more granular information around registrant verification practices that CCTs under… CCTLDs undertake. [5:33] MTS - Video: Next slide, please. [5:39] MTS - Video: So a little bit. [5:53] MTS - Video: Catch up there. [5:54] MTS - Video: So all CCTLDs were invited to respond to the survey, and we have anonymised the results. [6:03] MTS - Video: There's a link at the bottom there to the actual questions that were circulated and responded to. [6:09] MTS - Video: We had 45 responses that represented 65 CCTLDs. [6:18] MTS - Video: Next slide, please. [6:25] MTS - Video: Just a little bit about what the survey seeks to understand. We've looked at the types of abuse that CCTLDs encounter, which is at times broader than the ICANN-defined DNS abuse. [6:39] MTS - Video: the levels of abuse identified and what actions are being taken. [6:46] MTS - Video: Some of the detection and mitigation tools. [6:49] MTS - Video: verification requirements and what challenges Ccs are facing. [6:56] MTS - Video: And in respect of the ccTLD landscape, there's currently 309. [7:02] MTS - Video: With 65 being included in the survey, that's about 21% of CCs represented through this 26 survey. [7:14] MTS - Video: Next slide, please. [7:17] MTS - Video: Just a bit of context here, from CCs compared to GTLDs, they currently have just about 40% of the global market. [7:27] MTS - Video: and 5 of the largest Tlds are, in fact, the CCTLDs, the ones shown there in red or orange. [7:42] MTS - Video: Next slide, please. [7:48] MTS - Video: So CCTs, LDs are uniquely distinct in their purpose, their governance, their registration rules, their policies, and tied to specific [7:59] MTS - Video: country or territories across 5 geographic regions. [8:05] MTS - Video: Local governance models dictate what a registry defines as abuse. [8:14] MTS - Video: Thank you. Next slide. [8:21] MTS - Video: Generally, CCs have typically lower levels of abuse. [8:25] MTS - Video: observed compared to GTLDs. We don't really know why, but some of the indicators might be stricter eligibility. [8:35] MTS - Video: requirements in some jurisdictions, and many have more rigorous data accuracy practices. [8:49] MTS - Video: NetBeacon provides some regular reporting around comparisons between GTLDs and CCTLDs. [8:58] MTS - Video: and [9:00] MTS - Video: Happy to hear from anyone who might be here from NetBEACON if they wanted to talk to that at all. [9:08] MTS - Video: Do we have anyone here? [9:12] MTS - Video: David. [9:16] MTS - Video: Thank you, Barbara. My name is David McCauley from VeriSign. I am definitely not part of NetBeacon. However, I joined the survey team, not at the beginning, but partway through, and one of the things I've done recently is touch base with NetBeacon with respect to these kinds of statements we have, and [9:35] MTS - Video: Graham Button kindly responded, and there's plenty of data. I have some data I can share if anybody would like to see what I've been looking at. I don't have it to present right now. I'd be happy to share that, through email afterwards. Just get in touch with me, David McCauley, I'm at VeriSign. [9:52] MTS - Video: But roughly, looking at the 10 largest [9:57] MTS - Video: gTLDs versus the 10 largest ccTLDs, it was an order of magnitude of maybe one-fifth of the level of malicious… maliciously registered domains on the CC side. [10:09] MTS - Video: And so, anyway, they have plenty of data. NetBeacon, as many of you know, does this, does a very good job of this, and so, I'm happy to share what I have and can get people in touch with Graham and Rowena. [10:21] MTS - Video: As they would wish. Thanks. [10:29] MTS - Video: Thanks, David. [10:32] MTS - Video: Okay, well, any further comments or questions in respect of the context around CCs at all? [10:40] MTS - Video: and abuse. [10:42] MTS - Video: But nothing. [10:50] MTS - Video: Okay, well, we'll… Now get into the survey results. And [10:58] MTS - Video: I want to thank Alejandra for a terrific job she's done. [11:03] MTS - Video: assessing all of the responses, and she will help me now with some of the presentation on some of the findings. So I hand over to you, Alejandra. Thank you very much. [11:16] MTS - Video: Thank you, Barbara. This is Alejandra speaking. If we can go to the next slide. [11:23] MTS - Video: As as and and the next one. Thank you. As we saw in the previous [11:31] MTS - Video: slide, we, we want to understand, how DNS abuse, it's handled, in the ccTLD world, and [11:45] MTS - Video: the more data, the more research we do, the better understanding we will have on this. And here we can see the first highlight of the surveys, and it's a comparison of the, percentage of. [12:01] MTS - Video: CCTLDs from a region, in the 3 years that the survey has been. [12:10] MTS - Video: circulated. So this time we had fewer responses than in previous years. We do understand that sometimes the survey can seem either too long or not everyone has all the information all at once. [12:28] MTS - Video: But we would like to improve this in the sense of, as Barbara mentioned, the survey was reduced and maybe if some didn't know, we are trying to improve that. [12:44] MTS - Video: I would like to encourage people to always participate in the survey, because it gives us a better understanding. We like to know that the ccTLD world has less abuse than the GTLD world. [13:02] MTS - Video: But we would like to have data to show for it. [13:06] MTS - Video: So here, the this, the the what we can see here is that it's similar. [13:18] MTS - Video: distribution of the regions and, from the respondents. So. [13:27] MTS - Video: It's good participation, and we appreciate it, but we would like more. If we can go to the next slide, please. [13:37] MTS - Video: So there was a question on that asked to the to the Cctlds for them to let us know the levels of abuse that they know, or that they [13:53] MTS - Video: well, self-report on on on this question. So what we can see here is that [14:05] MTS - Video: we have, improved awareness, on, through time. Like, when we started in 2022, there were more not-sure responses than now, so that's a plus. And we can also see that there's. [14:24] MTS - Video: As, [14:28] MTS - Video: We are preserving, let's say, a majority of the respondents reporting on abuse below 0.1%. [14:41] MTS - Video: So it's [14:47] MTS - Video: It's great to see these numbers, and it's very few who have more than 0.2%, which is already low. [14:56] MTS - Video: So Yeah. [15:00] MTS - Video: I don't know if anyone has any questions regarding this particular highlight. Yes, Jajit. [15:07] MTS - Video: Quick observations is one is that when we look at the responses, it's largely from EU from the previous slide. So I'll be curious to know what is the response in terms of abuse levels by region. That's one. [15:22] MTS - Video: And second is that what is the seriousness of the abuse? So it may be 0.1 or 0.01%, but it may be extremely severe. So if we can possibly capture that in future. [15:34] MTS - Video: We have some information around this. These are just the first highlights of the data analysis. There will be a webinar where we will get more in-depth with the responses that we got, so thank you for that. We will make sure to include that when we present them. [15:56] MTS - Video: Thank you. [15:58] MTS - Video: If we can go to the next one. [16:07] MTS - Video: Okay. So here, there is. [16:15] MTS - Video: I call this the meat buster table, because there's a sense that having low prices is related to having [16:30] MTS - Video: abuse. But here we can see that there's a range of of of different pricing of the domain names, and [16:42] MTS - Video: most of the respondents are still in the lower ends of abuse. So there's no link between pricing and the level of abuse from the data that we [17:01] MTS - Video: We gathered here. [17:04] MTS - Video: And we would like to know what it's actually what. [17:11] MTS - Video: helps TLDs have less abuse, but at least this one that it's related to pricing and that's something that people intuitively think that that's the relation here we can see that it's it's not linked. [17:29] MTS - Video: Oh. [17:31] MTS - Video: So, Jayajit, for the record, just hazarding a guess is that, for the higher price levels, they're able to push in more traffic, so they will use that. So they'll use the cheapest level, which allows maximum amount of traffic to go through. So they won't use $99 plus, because that's a waste of money. [17:51] MTS - Video: They'll not use 5 USD because that doesn't allow too much traffic to be pumped in. So the sweet spot is the area that you had marked out. [18:01] MTS - Video: Well. [18:03] MTS - Video: I don't know if we have the data for that. But please, Bruce. [18:08] MTS - Video: Yeah, one comment I would make is, I think when people are filling in this survey, we're basically referring to our, I was going to say rack rate, but, you know, like the normal price that the registry offers, but I think a lot of TLDs do promotional pricing for different events, so it probably doesn't capture it. [18:27] MTS - Video: And so, when people say that there's a link between pricing and abuse, I suspect some of it's to do with promotional programs. [18:34] MTS - Video: Where, you know, in some cases, people say that names are free. [18:38] MTS - Video: And then what they're trying to do is they want to get revenue from the renewals. So I think that's one thing that we probably haven't captured is the impact of promotions on abuse as opposed to the steady state when the pricing is set like this. [18:54] MTS - Video: Yes, there were some observations in this field that they did say that since when they need to answer this question, they need to choose [19:05] MTS - Video: one of the ranges, and some do handle different ranges. There were some observations said that, okay, we tried to place our response the best way we could on the range of prices that we have, but still, even if they do have these promotions, or even they do have the premium domain names that they… like, you can go either way, right? [19:30] MTS - Video: They're not taken into consideration, here. But still. [19:36] MTS - Video: knowing that the respondents still chose one of these ranges, the levels of abuse are still low. So even if they do have the promotions, we don't have a link as in [19:52] MTS - Video: Cheap makes abuse easier or the other way around. Thank you. Christian. [20:00] MTS - Video: Thank you. I think it really differs on what kind of abuse you're seeing. [20:06] MTS - Video: Because for some types of abuse, the price really has a link. Like we had extreme campaigns in 2017, and we saw much higher levels of abuse and more ADR cases and so on. And we don't have that kind of promotions anymore. [20:22] MTS - Video: But if you look at the abuse now, like, if you want to target a Swedish consumer. [20:28] MTS - Video: Then you want to get an SE domain to target those. [20:32] MTS - Video: So then it doesn't really matter that our TLD is around, like, $20 or something, because if you want to target these people, you get what's most credible, and in Sweden, that would be a SE domain. So there, the pricing doesn't matter. But if you just want to target whoever and get a lot of, like, old domains and so on, the pricing is very important in that sense, because. [20:55] MTS - Video: If you only pay $0.01, then you can buy many domains. [21:05] MTS - Video: Alright, just checking if there are no more ads. [21:09] MTS - Video: Yeah. Well, we have one in the back. [21:17] MTS - Video: I, [21:24] MTS - Video: Hello, Alban Kwan from Trusted Notify. Now, just a quick question. I know some CCTLD consider local defined [21:33] MTS - Video: abuse as the abuse type as well. Is this statistic only related to DNS abuse specifically, or is it more like an open-ended abuse? [21:45] MTS - Video: Definition. [21:48] MTS - Video: Well, it's on Dns abuse in particular. [21:55] MTS - Video: So we've That, I think we can… oh, yes, Yuka? [22:00] MTS - Video: Thanks, Alekana. So, the ccNSO DNS Abuse Standing Committee has decided that it has a very broad perspective on what relates to… related to DNS abuse, so it's not strictly limited to the ICANN definition of DNS abuse, it's broader, and [22:19] MTS - Video: The committee has decided that the perspective is beneficial to explore. And because CCTLDs are not linked to the ICANN consensus policies. [22:31] MTS - Video: There is a benefit in having a broader perspective and an open view of everything abuse related in the market. Thank you. [22:42] MTS - Video: Thank you. Okay. [22:46] MTS - Video: All right, maybe we can go to the next one. [22:58] MTS - Video: Thank you. So here. [22:59] MTS - Video: Another highlight, from the survey, it's related to the hot topic of AI, and, here it's, very interesting to see that, from last [23:16] MTS - Video: Survey to the current one, there's an increase. [23:20] MTS - Video: use and awareness of AI. Before, people were less likely to be using it and more likely not to use it. [23:33] MTS - Video: But right now there's more respondents willing to use it less not to use it, but more planning to. So this is something to [23:47] MTS - Video: well to to take into consideration the Cctlds are willing to innovate and to get updated with technology and to [24:01] MTS - Video: well, use it to combat DNS abuse. In the past, the DASC had a panel at Tech Day. [24:13] MTS - Video: where this was one of the topics, the use of AI in DNS abuse prevention and detection. [24:23] MTS - Video: So what we see here reflects that. [24:29] MTS - Video: Does anyone have Any comment or question on this one? [24:36] MTS - Video: Yeah, it looks a little dangerous, because we should be using AI to protect ourselves. I mean, even two days back, I was in a meeting with our military, and we are [24:49] MTS - Video: using AI quite significantly to stop Dns abuse. So I think it'd be important that we started adopting it in the civilian side also. [25:00] MTS - Video: So the fact that AI is not being, there's no increase in use of AI between 2024 and 2026. No, I did it incorrectly, sorry. [25:09] MTS - Video: Sorry I read it incorrectly. I'll take back the statement. Yes, yes, it actually increased. So okay, no problem. [25:17] MTS - Video: A. [25:19] MTS - Video: Okay, so let's move on to the next slide. [25:24] MTS - Video: And here I hand it over back to Barbara. Thank you. [25:30] MTS - Video: Just on the comment that you made, Chegg. [25:36] MTS - Video: Yeah, Jake, Jake, did you have any examples of how you're using it that you wanted to share at all? [25:43] MTS - Video: It was from the military, so I'll, I'll not be able to share, but, everyone is struggling. [25:50] MTS - Video: Right, so the intent is there, but [25:53] MTS - Video: The tools used are different. Also, the point is that there is no difference between civilian and military, because if the critical infrastructure gets impacted, then the military gets degraded. So the struggle is to make sure that there is an extension from the military to the civilian. [26:12] MTS - Video: And that's quite challenging. Also, it's not just about .in, which is the CCTLD for India, but it's about a whole host of other things. So .in is part of the larger puzzle. [26:26] MTS - Video: Thank you. This slide here is taken from the free text comments that people made in respect of how they're using AI. [26:37] MTS - Video: And what types of tools that they are using. So, we've just summarized some of the in-house. [26:46] MTS - Video: ways that CCs are using it is to, or planning to use it, is around flagging suspicious registrations. [26:57] MTS - Video: developing tools to monitor new domains and web pages, how it's being used to identify potential abuse. [27:05] MTS - Video: They some some have developed their own AI system. [27:09] MTS - Video: To identify suspicious registrations, and… [27:14] MTS - Video: Machine learning is also being used to detect domain name patterns and false addresses. In some cases they have automation set up, but in a lot of cases there is some manual as well. [27:29] MTS - Video: And on the right-hand side is a list of the different tools that are being used, and explored. [27:38] MTS - Video: Did anyone have any comments or want to share any of their own activities in respect to the use of AI and machine learning? [27:51] MTS - Video: Or any challenges? [28:05] MTS - Video: and I certainly oh, Bruce. [28:08] MTS - Video: Yeah, I guess when… I suppose the challenge with a lot of these tools is they do. [28:13] MTS - Video: identify a lot of, let's call it, suspicious domains, and so the question is, you know, how do you resource investigating it? [28:20] MTS - Video: Or do you let the AI tool. [28:25] MTS - Video: you know, start contacting customers and things. I think most of us are uncomfortable with that step. [28:31] MTS - Video: But it's interesting, is where do you draw the line between [28:35] MTS - Video: Where do you add the human into the loop? [28:37] MTS - Video: I'm [28:38] MTS - Video: And I think that's probably going to be the biggest challenge with AI. Because the tools have got the capability to go all the way through, identify something suspicious. Talk to somebody, suspend a domain name, do all those things. But I think most of us probably want to have a fair degree of human intervention at this stage. [28:58] MTS - Video: Yeah, that's a good point. I know for our CCTLD, we're using it to get a sample to do registration, validation and verification, because you can't check… we can't check everything, so at least, it's sort of selecting the most [29:16] MTS - Video: Dodgy looking ones that you might want to process, [29:21] MTS - Video: And often we've found that it's quite accurate and a lot don't validate and verify, so the human in the loop in our case is at the point of [29:32] MTS - Video: The action that's taken to suspend or [29:37] MTS - Video: In our case, anyway. Would you go as far as letting the AI do the suspension? No, not at this point, I don't think. [29:44] MTS - Video: Sorry, Bruce's question was, would we go as far as letting AI do the suspension? And at this point we wouldn't. Alejandra, did you have any comments? [29:55] MTS - Video: Oh, and just to to add [29:57] MTS - Video: To that particular point is that most of the free text submissions hinted that there was always a human involved, which is, I think, a good approach in the sense of [30:17] MTS - Video: verify, even if it seems to be very accurate every single time. There were also comments saying that they had false positives as well, so… and some of the tools, needed more refinement, but just to… to… [30:37] MTS - Video: to add to what was mentioned. Thank you. If I may add, it's a good question, because the system is getting overwhelmed as we speak, obviously, and therefore, what they're looking at is human-in-the-loop post-facto, which is [30:51] MTS - Video: after they have blocked it, and then looking whether the blocking was justified or not, because in real time, in many cases, the human in the loop is given 4 minutes to look at it, which is not really human in the loop, it's somebody not applying their mind. So it's a challenging situation. [31:10] MTS - Video: Any other comments or questions? [31:17] MTS - Video: Okay, next slide. I think we're going. [31:22] MTS - Video: Back to you, Alejandra. [31:25] MTS - Video: Thank you, Barbara. This is Alejandra, and [31:30] MTS - Video: Since, the ccNSO is, currently participating in the, Janice Oak. [31:40] MTS - Video: PDP on mitigation of DNS abuse. This is one of the topics that they were discussing, and of course, we wanted to check with the CCTLDs if they were doing any associated domain checks, and this means that if they find [31:58] MTS - Video: that a domain name has issues if they look to all the other domain names that might be associated with this one, if they also have issues. So, what we get from this. [32:15] MTS - Video: question is that Some do check either regularly or occasionally. [32:25] MTS - Video: And, others do require the registrars to do so, and, less than half, none of the above. So, it's split here, like some… [32:37] MTS - Video: do, some don't. And one of the responses was if anyone would provide a reverse who is to third parties to [32:48] MTS - Video: to conduct such a check, and nobody selected this particular option. [32:55] MTS - Video: So [32:57] MTS - Video: It's it's an interesting thing to to know. I don't know if anyone has any comments on this one. [33:06] MTS - Video: Please, Kristen. [33:09] MTS - Video: It's Christian from .se. I just wanted to say that we're in the process to offer Rivera Squiz publicly, and plan to launch it in December. And I know that Norway is also, but I don't know if they responded, but… [33:24] MTS - Video: I would guess that, well, we… I cannot tell you who did it, who didn't respond, because we do keep the responses anonymized. [33:35] MTS - Video: But in any case, if they did or didn't, maybe they would be thinking of right now if they're doing it now, since it didn't have the possibility in the future. [33:46] MTS - Video: So, that's, something. [33:50] MTS - Video: Anyone else? [33:52] MTS - Video: just checking. [33:54] MTS - Video: Oh, you? Yes. [33:58] MTS - Video: taking over the microphone. Hi, I'm Martin Simon, SRDN. We plan to introduce a reverse WIS for. [34:09] MTS - Video: for authorities next year so that they can do some lookups, but only for them. So it's limited. [34:20] MTS - Video: Thank you. So looking forward when we do our next survey. But now those responses coming and Bryce. [34:28] MTS - Video: And Bruce? Just… just gonna say, yeah, we… we sort of… there's another variation of that. Yeah, we… we have a reverse who is, but it's only available, actually, to the, actual owner of the domain name, because what we see sometimes is people [34:42] MTS - Video: will misuse a particular registrant's credentials to register other names and they can contact us and we can give them [34:50] MTS - Video: A list of all the names that are on on the register for them. [34:53] MTS - Video: So we… we've yet to make it available much beyond that. [35:02] MTS - Video: Thank you. Yes, please. [35:07] MTS - Video: Thank you. This is Yuri Takamatsu from Dot Jp. For the record, and [35:12] MTS - Video: My question is a little bit different. [35:15] MTS - Video: Regarding this question, would you provide how many respondents? [35:23] MTS - Video: Each question had. [35:25] MTS - Video: I mean, is it possible to disclose that information as a survey result? I was just wondering, this looks like there's only percentage at the left side, so it looks like 46 are the basic number of the total, so I was literally thinking about, is it right or not? [35:44] MTS - Video: Well, we already mentioned at the beginning how many people did respond, and this is the percentage of that number. So, usually, the task, it's the first time I'm participating in the analysis of the data, but as I know. [36:02] MTS - Video: The task usually presents them in percentages. [36:06] MTS - Video: Because it's the percentage of the people who responded this time. [36:10] MTS - Video: But I defer to Secretary and the chair to tell me otherwise. [36:18] MTS - Video: Thanks, Alejandra. So the practice of the desk has been since the very beginning to share the results in an anonymized manner. That also means not giving concrete numbers of who responded to which option. [36:31] MTS - Video: to ensure additional anonymity and, yeah, to have a sort of a picture, a range of the direction of travel, of how the landscape looks like. And, the. [36:43] MTS - Video: This, [36:45] MTS - Video: Yeah, is in line with how DASC presented survey results in the past. Hope that answers your question. [36:51] MTS - Video: Thank you. [36:54] MTS - Video: Okay. [36:56] MTS - Video: So let's go to the next one, please. [37:03] MTS - Video: Okay, so, this is, something that [37:10] MTS - Video: It's very interesting to see, regarding data verification, who does it, and when in the process it's done, and how, also. So you can see that in blue, we will see manually by the ccTLD. [37:29] MTS - Video: In red, it's automated by the ccTLD. [37:33] MTS - Video: In yellow, it's not performed by the ccTLD, and in green, its registrars are required to verify. So… [37:42] MTS - Video: With that, we see that data verification happens prior to registration and post-registration. Upon renewal, it's mostly required on the registrar side. [37:58] MTS - Video: And the screening of suspicious registration is heavily done manually by CCTLDs, according to the respondents. [38:07] MTS - Video: There's some automation and some requirement for the registrars, but this is, how we see the data verification being [38:20] MTS - Video: Done in different stages. [38:23] MTS - Video: Any comments or questions on this one. [38:33] MTS - Video: Peter. [38:36] MTS - Video: Good morning, everyone. My name is Peter Varosta from Center. Just so that I correctly interpret this, This slide. [38:47] MTS - Video: So if I add prior to registration and post registration, currently. [38:55] MTS - Video: 70 to 75% of CCTLDs verify all registrations manually. [39:06] MTS - Video: That sounds… Very high. [39:14] MTS - Video: No. Well… [39:23] MTS - Video: Right now, I'm blanking on whether the respondents could select more than one response, and I believe they did, but Jordan can help me here. [39:34] MTS - Video: Oh, no, I mean, I can't. It's just that because the purple bar is up to 60%, the purple bars add up to more than 100, so you must have been able to choose multiple options, yeah. [39:46] MTS - Video: Well, here… [39:48] MTS - Video: We are not, we're just seeing the responses as they are, and not how many did… like, is it the same [39:58] MTS - Video: person who selected the prior registration, the one that selected post-registration. [40:05] MTS - Video: No, we're just telling how many people selected that response, so I wouldn't add them up to say, this is what's happening, because we don't know if it was the same person. Maybe some that do automated [40:21] MTS - Video: Prior to registration, then they do manually post-registration, you know? [40:25] MTS - Video: That's what I mean. [40:29] MTS - Video: So, thanks, but… I mean, to me, that still doesn't clarify. Even if you would say we forget about the prior to registrations, that 40% of CCTLDs manually checks every registration [40:43] MTS - Video: Post, yes, every registration post-registration. Even that seems very high. [40:50] MTS - Video: Well, some do. Maybe it's about interpretation, or maybe the question reveals that it's only some registrations that are manually checked. [41:02] MTS - Video: Well, I would, I have some hands up, but, we will I will need to check the observations. But yes, a lot of CCTLDs do manual checking. So I'm. [41:16] MTS - Video: Chris, Christian first, and then Bruce. [41:19] MTS - Video: It's Christian from DataC. I just wanted to give an example. So we have, I guess, up to, like, a thousand registrations per day, and we do have one employee sitting every day and scrolling through the registrations to see if they catch something that looks suspicious, but that's after registration. [41:36] MTS - Video: So we use about 1 to 2 hours per day on this. And we do find a lot of interesting data that we want to look more into. [41:44] MTS - Video: So yeah, we do manual checks. We also do a lot of automation check, and we do require registrars to verify before registration, which is of. [41:55] MTS - Video: Different quality, depending on the registrar. [42:00] MTS - Video: Bruce? Yeah, I was just… I can't just, offer a little bit more of a mathematical interpretation, but. [42:06] MTS - Video: I think I'll recognise that some of the CCs are quite small, and so it's quite feasible for a person to literally look at the registrations as they're coming through. [42:15] MTS - Video: And then even for a larger registry, you know, we probably get a couple of thousand registrations a day. I think, as Kristian said, you can still actually scan that visually, just the list, and look at stuff that looks a bit odd, and then delve into it in more detail. So you're not looking at the detail of 2,000 records, you're scanning it, and you go, oh, this record's got the word bank in it, maybe I'll have a look at it in more detail. [42:39] MTS - Video: So I don't think you should interpret that post-registration, meaning you check every registration. It just means that someone is having a look at the registrations as a whole. [42:50] MTS - Video: Correct. [42:53] MTS - Video: You okay? [42:56] MTS - Video: Oh, Kristian. [42:58] MTS - Video: Then you're good. [43:04] MTS - Video: Okay, thank you. [43:05] MTS - Video: So… [43:07] MTS - Video: Just to let you know that this question refers to question number 23 from the survey, and it was indeed a matrix question. So, respondents were able to select several options in one row. So it was about, when do people. [43:23] MTS - Video: Do verifications and how do they happen? Like, for instance, prior to registration, is it manual, automated? [43:30] MTS - Video: either not performed by the ccTLD or registrars are required, and all of those boxes could be selected. [43:36] MTS - Video: Thank you. [43:40] MTS - Video: Thank you. I see Jaichi. [43:42] MTS - Video: Yeah, Jayajit, for the record, I was hoping somebody else will ask the question, but it's bothering me. The purple and the red and the yellow, at the first read together should add up to 100%, and I'm not able to do that visually. Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly again. But, between manually check. [44:02] MTS - Video: Automatically checked and not checked, that should be 100%. [44:06] MTS - Video: No, because since, as Jokic just explained, people could select different options, right? So what we are showing here is from each option, how… from the respondents, how many selected each, but it's not… [44:24] MTS - Video: You cannot sum them all up to get to 100. It's from those. How… From… [44:31] MTS - Video: What's the percentage per per option? [44:36] MTS - Video: I mean, same, because either they will say that they did not do the check. [44:41] MTS - Video: Right? So even if they take everything, if there is a possibility of taking everything, and if they take that they did it automatically, then they won't take the manual one. [44:49] MTS - Video: Right? From the face value of what it looks like. So either they have performed the check or not performed the check. If they haven't, if they perform the check, then it'll be either manually or automatic. There is no third option. So, I think a bit of an interpretation will help, on this. [45:07] MTS - Video: Okay, but we can… well, we are not showing that [45:11] MTS - Video: The correlation between all the responses, like, if a person selected 3 options. [45:20] MTS - Video: or that they select one option. It's just the response, like, which option was selected. But I see that it is confusing. We will review it for the webinar. Okay. [45:34] MTS - Video: Yes, Chris? Just a quick follow-up. Like, in our system, we have an automatic system that checks first, and then the manual I talked about before, then we check manually everything the automatic system didn't catch. [45:48] MTS - Video: So in that sense, no, I was not the one filling out the form, but I'm guessing my colleague crossed both manual and automatic. [45:55] MTS - Video: That makes sense, and it should be more than 100%. It's less than 100. [46:01] MTS - Video: Thank you. [46:09] MTS - Video: We will revise Jochen. [46:15] MTS - Video: I have to admit that I raised my hand and then forgot what I wanted to say. But [46:20] MTS - Video: Yeah, maybe important to stress that this is self-reporting. It's not exact science, what you see here. We try to provide a picture of the landscape. [46:32] MTS - Video: Informing discussions around ccTLDs and DNS abuse mitigation, and hoping to find emerging trends that might be relevant for ccTLDs to explore further. [46:44] MTS - Video: But, the, display of how the… [46:49] MTS - Video: question was asked, and how… something to be refined, perhaps. It could be displayed either by the time of when the type of verification happens, but we could also display it the other way around, like. [47:05] MTS - Video: Focusing on the methodology, if it's automatic or manual, and… [47:11] MTS - Video: Yeah, as said by Kristian before, you could choose all of the options or none. [47:18] MTS - Video: Any combination. Thank you. [47:25] MTS - Video: Okay, I don't see any more hands up. [47:29] MTS - Video: Let's go to the next one, please. [47:38] MTS - Video: and I get back to Barb. Thank you. [47:44] MTS - Video: we did use AI to put the free text challenges responses from CCs into some themes for you. I know there's a lot of words on that slide, but [48:00] MTS - Video: I guess there's a couple of key themes that are coming through. [48:05] MTS - Video: around what are the challenges for CCs in… identifying and mitigating DNS abuse. [48:15] MTS - Video: detection, investigation, and verification. [48:21] MTS - Video: Everything from being able to identify the quality of the registration data. [48:31] MTS - Video: Uncertainty around associated domain checks, whether they should do that or not. [48:39] MTS - Video: the ongoing issue of registrant identity fraud. So even if you might have a local presence requirement. [48:48] MTS - Video: Bad actors. [48:52] MTS - Video: For want of a better word, using Other business identification from the local registration, [49:02] MTS - Video: as well, so that can be difficult to detect at times. [49:09] MTS - Video: Resources, technology and automation. [49:13] MTS - Video: There's… For some CCs, there's limited access to threat. [49:18] MTS - Video: intelligence. Some of that's down to the cost of vendor products. [49:25] MTS - Video: Some of it's limited technical and human resources. [49:31] MTS - Video: in the registry. [49:37] MTS - Video: And a lot of manual. [49:40] MTS - Video: Processes still in place, so… A bit of a call for more automation to help with that. [49:48] MTS - Video: stakeholder cooperation and coordination. [49:53] MTS - Video: need for more proactive action. [49:57] MTS - Video: Lack of common understanding of DNS abuse. [50:01] MTS - Video: I think… [50:03] MTS - Video: For our forum, we don't want to put an exact definition on DNS abuse. It's whatever that is for you in your CC. [50:14] MTS - Video: So, these other jurisdictional and authority dependencies as well. [50:24] MTS - Video: Policy, legal and regulatory frameworks. [50:28] MTS - Video: around potential regulatory and legal constraints. [50:34] MTS - Video: Lack of clear contact content related guidelines. [50:39] MTS - Video: Need for formal DNS abuse policies and response frameworks. [50:45] MTS - Video: And… Proportionality and mitigation actions. [50:51] MTS - Video: The other theme was reporting and data quality. As mentioned earlier, some CCs are using threat intelligence and getting a lot of false positives and low-quality abuse reports. [51:06] MTS - Video: But on the flip side, some of them are using it quite successfully, so it's different for different CCs. [51:14] MTS - Video: One of the common themes was poor quality or incomplete registration data. [51:20] MTS - Video: from registrars and their customers. [51:25] MTS - Video: Proactive mitigation and registration controls. [51:30] MTS - Video: A real call out for more automation. [51:33] MTS - Video: Cost and access to threat intelligence. [51:38] MTS - Video: I just, in respect of access to threat intelligence, I just wanted to flag for some CCs who might be interested. [51:46] MTS - Video: pir and the Internet Watch Foundation. [51:50] MTS - Video: are providing support for anyone who wants to access CSAM, child sexual abuse material flagging. [52:03] MTS - Video: So if that's something that you're interested in exploring, you could reach out to .pir or the Internet Watch Foundation, who can tell you more about that. [52:15] MTS - Video: I don't know if we have anyone from PIR? [52:18] MTS - Video: here in the session, but if you are, I'm welcome to speak to that. [52:27] MTS - Video: doesn't look like it. But yes, if you want more information, please reach out. [52:33] MTS - Video: David? [52:36] MTS - Video: Thanks, Barbara. David McCauley speaking again. I know, or I believe, that the folks from PIR are planning to attend our Wednesday… [52:44] MTS - Video: Excuse me, our session on Wednesday for that very purpose, too. [52:47] MTS - Video: sort of spread the word about availability of IWF. Thanks. [52:52] MTS - Video: Perfect. Thank you. [52:55] MTS - Video: And then I guess the evolving nature of DNS abuse. It's, always evolving with AI creating it more quickly. [53:06] MTS - Video: It's hard to keep on top of it and keep disrupting it. Need for continuous adaptation and mitigation. So, don't know if anyone wanted to speak about their experience, or any tips and tricks? [53:21] MTS - Video: or any ways that you might be implementing more automation that others might find interesting. [53:29] MTS - Video: Happy to open the floor up. [53:36] MTS - Video: or anyone online. [53:51] MTS - Video: I know centers recently published some interesting documents around [53:58] MTS - Video: innovation from a number of different CCs in the EU around threat intelligence tools that I think some are even open source, if anyone wanted to talk to any of those at all. [54:19] MTS - Video: If not, is there anything else that people might be finding challenging? [54:25] MTS - Video: In your space that… You'd like to have a discussion about? [54:31] MTS - Video: Yes. [54:33] MTS - Video: This is Fatma from Turkey. Okay, that's the big difference between GTLDs and CCTLDs is about governance model, and we also have, trying to solve this problem in the stakeholder cooperation part. [54:52] MTS - Video: And the PDP is trying to solve this between registrar and registrants with the help of RRI. But we have a lot of stakeholders in CCTLDs like cybersecurity units and other important units. [55:11] MTS - Video: And because of that, I think we have to talk about more. Maybe it can be also a topic for the next meeting. [55:24] MTS - Video: And the role of the stakeholders to solve abuse issue, to mitigate abuse issue. [55:32] MTS - Video: And, who can be responsible for detection and verification and solving problem, from these stakeholders, cybersecurity units, registry or registrar. [55:46] MTS - Video: I think this could be an interesting topic for the next ICANN ATA meeting. [55:55] MTS - Video: Thank you, Fatima, for that suggestion. That's really helpful. Any Bruce. [56:01] MTS - Video: Just a broad comment, I think, in terms of the environment that we're all operating in, but what we're seeing in Australia is much more of a… [56:12] MTS - Video: Sentiment from consumers that tech industry, and we're just obviously one tiny part of it, but the tech industry should be doing more to stop scams. [56:22] MTS - Video: And the problem is that a lot of scams involve a lot of providers. So typically they involve the banking system, they involve SMS messages on phones, they involve domain registrations, and often. [56:38] MTS - Video: regulators, and in Australia we have a regulator for everything, they'll often, struggle to find who in this tech environment, should they talk to to stop a particular problem, and often the only one they can find is us. [56:53] MTS - Video: And so we're… what we're finding is that we're trying to push back out and sort of say, well, we… we are responsible for the registration itself, and I often use the analogy of number plates. You know, we… we can actually tell you who's the number plate. [57:08] MTS - Video: On a car, and we can tell you who owns that number plate, but we've really got nothing to do with what's going on in the car, how many passengers they've got, what goods they're carrying, et cetera, et cetera. And it's more likely that the car rental company or whatever's got more information. [57:24] MTS - Video: So it's actually trying to map out that ecosystem for enforcement bodies and actually help people find the right person or entity to direct their complaint to. [57:39] MTS - Video: Thanks, Bruce. [57:42] MTS - Video: Do we have any… Oh. [57:45] MTS - Video: Georgia. [57:46] MTS - Video: I'll just add to what was just mentioned, is that there is also a bit of a challenge in terms of where is the regulatory power being derived to even block traffic going through. So it's, in a way, it's a legality issue. And if I can paraphrase what was just said, there is… [58:05] MTS - Video: no power but responsibility, because you can't stop, let's say, banking traffic from going through. But the responsibility keeps falling on the transport layer, which includes the registrar. So that's a bit of a challenge. [58:26] MTS - Video: Thank you. [58:28] MTS - Video: Do we have anyone online who Has any questions or comments? [58:39] MTS - Video: Okay. [58:43] MTS - Video: Well, this is just the summary of the highlights. We. [58:48] MTS - Video: There will be a fuller session on the 2nd of December by way of a webinar with more information. [58:55] MTS - Video: From the survey questions. [58:58] MTS - Video: This is just a selection. [59:01] MTS - Video: Are we ready for the mentimeter? Oh. [59:05] MTS - Video: Just before we do that, this is, just an overview of the previous topics and things that the [59:13] MTS - Video: DASC have covered off at previous ICANN public meetings. So we've talked about abuse mitigation tools and measurements. [59:24] MTS - Video: data accuracy and validation. A bit about what Bruce was just talking about, online scams, financial crime, and in particular, what some of the [59:36] MTS - Video: country regulatory frameworks are around that anti anti-scam alliances, etc. [59:44] MTS - Video: And there was… [59:46] MTS - Video: a joint session with the Tech Day on AI tools and abuse mitigation, and more recently with the… it's the registry stakeholder group. [59:58] MTS - Video: I can't remember what was the topic. Yoke, do you remember what the topic was at the registry one? [60:07] MTS - Video: Apologies, Barbara, I was distracted. Repeat the question. I think it was the Pdps for the ICANN 85 and 86. I think. [60:16] MTS - Video: Yeah, so ccNSO regularly has joint meetings with the Registrar Stakeholder Group, also with the Registry Stakeholder Group, and DNS abuse mitigation has always been one of the topics of common interest between [60:29] MTS - Video: the GNSO registry stakeholder group and the ccNSO. So the PDP was definitely one of the topics, but not only. Also, regular desk activities and trends in the ccTLD landscape. Thank you. [60:47] MTS - Video: Thank you. [60:49] MTS - Video: So that's just a little bit of what's been covered off through by the working group more recently. And [60:58] MTS - Video: If we could go to the next slide, please. [61:02] MTS - Video: Just some of the emerging themes coming through is around abuse remaining lower for CCTLDs. [61:12] MTS - Video: Potentially not all of them, but for a large number. And some of the challenges around manual processes, false positives, registrant identity fraud, poor quality data. [61:25] MTS - Video: Limited resources… And the need for more proactive mitigation and automation. So thinking about those challenges. [61:36] MTS - Video: I think we've got some poll… Some Mentimeter polls now. [61:42] MTS - Video: With some questions to get your guidance around. [61:48] MTS - Video: What sort of topics would you like to have covered off? [61:52] MTS - Video: Or explored more, at the next ICANN meeting. [62:06] MTS - Video: So will we have 3 questions come up for people there? [62:28] MTS - Video: And. [62:31] MTS - Video: So, if you can scan the QR code so you can participate in the survey. If not, you can go to menti.com on your laptop and just enter the code. [62:48] MTS - Video: Yeah. [62:51] MTS - Video: So we really like to know what would help CCTLDs move from being reactive to more proactive with DNS abuse mitigation. [63:08] MTS - Video: and you should be able to just put through some free text comments here. [63:35] MTS - Video: It's got coming up AI AI analysis, regulatory powers. [63:41] MTS - Video: Setting up mechanisms to track abuse. [63:44] MTS - Video: Tools deployed to mitigate DNS abuse. [63:48] MTS - Video: AI tools again… [63:54] MTS - Video: A CERT kind of framework at ccTLD level to share DNS abuse information on a real-time basis. [64:02] MTS - Video: Registrar support. [64:06] MTS - Video: Self-assessment and evaluation. [64:09] MTS - Video: Sharing data about identified abuse. [64:14] MTS - Video: Recognised digital identity verifications. [64:36] MTS - Video: Maybe 30 more seconds, if there's anything else. [64:42] MTS - Video: More work to be done with registrars. [64:49] MTS - Video: Processes should be automated, integration of AI, continuous monitoring of use… use using AI. [65:01] MTS - Video: Local certs coming up again. [65:05] MTS - Video: should integrate DNS abuse in their priorities? [65:14] MTS - Video: Sharing data about registrars or resellers who attract shady customers. [65:21] MTS - Video: Still a lot of manual processes. [65:24] MTS - Video: Strong identity verification, having a clear and legitimate basis for taking action, such as domestic legislation. [65:34] MTS - Video: Hey, these are really good, ideas. Thank you very much. [65:43] MTS - Video: Thanks, Barb, if I may. Perhaps somebody would like to speak to the answer options that they added into mentimeter. [65:51] MTS - Video: Anybody that would like to take the floor regarding the suggestions. [66:01] MTS - Video: Peter? [66:04] MTS - Video: Thank you, Alejandra Peter from center. Yes, I was one of the [66:10] MTS - Video: the few people, or the many people, I think that the added, sharing data in different… [66:18] MTS - Video: I mean, I think the CERT umbrella suggestion is a really good one. And then make sure that that data exchange is used and explored. And there's plenty of new tools available these days to do that. [66:34] MTS - Video: So I think that definitely is a very good option to make some progress there. Thanks. [66:42] MTS - Video: Thank you for that. Have you got any experience engaging with your certs or around how to do that? [66:53] MTS - Video: One of the key obstacles, unsurprisingly, in Europe has been the personal data that's involved in those exchanges. I know some registries have now finished a cooperation agreement that will allow them to exchange that data where the respective roles of data controllers are identified. And hopefully we'll be using that framework in a larger context. [67:18] MTS - Video: Once that is established, then… [67:20] MTS - Video: I think they are even getting confirmation from a data protection authority of one of the involved members that they're fine in sharing the data. [67:29] MTS - Video: Especially since half of the data or more is probably fake data anyway. And it's in a public interest that is to combat DNS abuse or cybercrime in a larger context. [67:43] MTS - Video: Thank you. [67:44] MTS - Video: Thanks for sharing that. [67:46] MTS - Video: Is there anyone else? So, I'll give the background as to why I put the CERT framework is for two primary reasons. One is, that the pathway for the escalation is through the national CERT, and that is a slow pathway. [68:04] MTS - Video: Second is many of the abuses are transnational in nature, and therefore the… [68:11] MTS - Video: the regulatory framework applicable is outside the jurisdiction of the local entity. And therefore, if we can have a layer before it reaches the national cert, a layer of the registrars sharing information at a very quick pace. [68:30] MTS - Video: Third also is that there is poisoning of AI happening because of the fact that it's being caught much later. So the data that's being fed into the AI itself gets poisoned. And therefore, that will be a problem that will show up, I think, in a few quarters from now. And hence, a rapid response is needed at this level. [68:57] MTS - Video: Thanks for that. Could you explain what you mean by the AI is being poisoned? [69:02] MTS - Video: So the AI is being driven by the train data. The data itself that is being picked up is getting poisoned, and therefore, it's a long gestation attack that's happening, and that's the problem. [69:21] MTS - Video: Anyone else wanting to speak to their suggestions? [69:27] MTS - Video: Make sure there's no one online. [69:31] MTS - Video: Okay, shall we move to the second Mentimeter question? [69:40] MTS - Video: What would you like to learn from other CCs about tackling DNS abuse? [69:52] MTS - Video: Give you a couple of minutes to send through your thoughts. [70:43] MTS - Video: I think that's a really good question. How do CC's get their registrars involved? Does anyone have any experience with that? Just while we're [70:56] MTS - Video: waiting for some more responses. [71:14] MTS - Video: So some of the others we've got coming through collaborating in tools and data. [71:21] MTS - Video: Simply their how-to, policies, techniques, how to tackle massive amounts of AI abuse reports. [71:30] MTS - Video: What data can a CC share with each other that complies with privacy constraints? [71:38] MTS - Video: abuse methods or techniques used to attack their registrars. [71:47] MTS - Video: What's working? [71:50] MTS - Video: What enablers or levers make it work? [71:56] MTS - Video: how to work with certs again from other countries. [72:01] MTS - Video: How to better deal with cross-border abuse. [72:06] MTS - Video: specific ways. Other Ccs use AI for Dns abuse mitigation. [72:19] MTS - Video: Mmm. [72:23] MTS - Video: Good examples of collaboration between CCs and local regulatory authorities. [72:33] MTS - Video: Maybe about… Few more seconds. [72:38] MTS - Video: Is anyone wanting to speak to any of those suggestions? [73:07] MTS - Video: How they handle false positives. [73:13] MTS - Video: Okay, there's some really great suggestions here, thanks very much. [73:21] MTS - Video: I think we're seeing quite a theme there around the cert. [73:26] MTS - Video: Engagement and collaboration and… Also with registrars. [73:34] MTS - Video: and AI and automation. [73:45] MTS - Video: Anything from you, Bruce? [73:49] MTS - Video: No, I have no problems. [73:58] MTS - Video: Let me turn that on first. Should we go to the final question we have? [74:04] MTS - Video: Based on what we learned from the 2026 survey, what is one issue you would like DASC to unpack at ICANN 88? [74:14] MTS - Video: In March. [74:18] MTS - Video: If it had to be one. [74:21] MTS - Video: What would it be? [74:22] MTS - Video: This is the vote. [75:56] MTS - Video: Okay, we've got coming through, [75:59] MTS - Video: a lot around use of AI and abuse detection. [76:05] MTS - Video: automation and human in the loop. I think I saw there. [76:11] MTS - Video: There's a bit coming through a few on associated domain checks. How to use information to do that. [76:18] MTS - Video: Yeah, that was one of my comments. One thing that jumped out to me on that slide. [76:25] MTS - Video: was, I guess, was a relative lower portion of ccTLDs doing associated domain name checks than I expected, and maybe that's, again, a bit of a mix of size of GTLD, of ccTLD, but certainly there's a policy development process requiring [76:42] MTS - Video: GTLD registries and registrars to do associate domain checks. [76:49] MTS - Video: What's probably missing is sort of the how, I guess, and that's probably where we can share that information. I think it's a relatively no-brainer that you should look to see if you've found abuse. Is there any other types of abuse? But what are the typical things we look for? Are we looking for Registrations that have got the same. [77:09] MTS - Video: DNS name server, or are we looking for registrations that have got the same email address as the contact? You know, what are the things that we use as triggers? [77:21] MTS - Video: Thanks, Bruce. [77:23] MTS - Video: Is there anything else that anyone wants to? Yeah, Alejandra. [77:28] MTS - Video: Just a quick observation from the 1st [77:33] MTS - Video: inputs. There were a few on how to balance manual or automated procedures. I think that's a great thing to understand on how CCTLDs do that. [77:50] MTS - Video: No. [77:52] MTS - Video: just thinking from all perspectives, right? As in, from maybe smaller CCTLDs who have few registrations to large CCTLDs who have lots of registrations. Still, they do share some manuals, some, automated, and [78:11] MTS - Video: I see a benefit on learning on those, and how to improve. [78:20] MTS - Video: Yeah, thank you for that. [78:22] MTS - Video: I think. Christian gave a good example of how he uses, how they do both. So that's really interesting. Thanks. Is there? [78:33] MTS - Video: Before we wrap up, is there any further comments or questions from anyone around any of the topics? [78:44] MTS - Video: David. [78:46] MTS - Video: Thanks, Margaret. David McCauley speaking again. So, I'd just like to mention something that's going to be coming in the new year, and I mentioned before that I work at Verisign. I participate here in CCNSO. [78:57] MTS - Video: But I also participate in the GNSO, in the Registry Stakeholder Group, and they're doing the P… I mean, the GNSO is doing the PDPs, they're doing discrete, you know, quickly achievable PDPs, one after the other. And one of the things they're going to be looking at in the coming year [79:14] MTS - Video: Is the other side of DNS abuse, that is, are there recourse mechanisms available to registrants who have had a name inappropriately blocked or suspended? [79:23] MTS - Video: And so, I just wanted to plant the seed that that work is being considered now. There's going to be an exploratory meeting at this ICANN87 about it. And so, there would be an interest in hearing about that, or hearing people's experiences if they do such… if they have such mechanisms in place, such processes. [79:42] MTS - Video: So it's just playing the seed to, you know, to be aware in the coming year, there may be requests to hear of experience and what might work, etc. And that also illustrates a point. We've worked more and more with the registry stakeholder group, DNS Abuse Working Group. [79:57] MTS - Video: that I also participate on, and that's a good… that's a good thing, because we're all registries, we all face this issue, and it's nice to share information. [80:05] MTS - Video: And I think we've done that well, and we're continuing to, so thank you very much. [80:11] MTS - Video: Okay. [80:13] MTS - Video: Thanks, David, and I just see there's another one up there, registrant validation manual versus automated, and it seems to me there are a reasonably high number of CCs who also have their registrars required to validate and verify [80:31] MTS - Video: customer information, so maybe there's an opportunity to learn from them how they do that as well, not just in the CCs, but how the registrars are actually doing that, and if there's any tips for CCs around that that they could implement. [80:48] MTS - Video: If they wanted to. [80:52] MTS - Video: Alright, I think… [80:55] MTS - Video: We've come to the end now, so the working group will have another meeting and then chat about which topics we want to progress for the next ICANN. [81:14] MTS - Video: Thank you very much for your participation and for the ideas and thoughts around that. [81:20] MTS - Video: Just a plug, we will have a webinar on the 2nd of December, if you want to scan that code there, and we'll provide more information on the survey results. [81:34] MTS - Video: If you want to come along to that. [81:39] MTS - Video: I think that's it, is it? Okay. [81:42] MTS - Video: Just to let you know that the slides used during today's session, together with the Mentimeter results, will be posted on the ICANN public schedule, so you can see the… you can review them there. Thank you. [81:55] MTS - Video: Thanks. Anything else before we close up, then. [82:00] MTS - Video: Yes, David, you okay? Have a question. Does the chat transcript gets posted on the schedule? [82:07] MTS - Video: Okay. [82:08] MTS - Video: Okay, just curious. Thank you. [82:13] MTS - Video: Okay, if there's nothing else, thank you very much, and enjoy the rest of the conference. Source: https://icann87.sched.com/event/2Wjfd/ccnso-dns-abuse-standing-committee-work-session Revision: aed47d5b13f90a08ec46d7871165e6d519838c50fed6fbed10db1eaaae4a341a